Gonzo Testimony

Choice moments in yesterday's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee:

BIDEN: I have not heard of NSA saying to the Intelligence Committee, "We are binding ourselves as we engage in this activity under the minimization procedures of 12333, as well as other statutes." I'm unaware that that's written down or stated anywhere or been presented to the Intelligence Committee. Can you assure us that has been done?

GONZALES: No, sir, I can't assure you that.

BIDEN: Can you assure us, General, that you are fully, totally informed and confident that you know the absolute detail with which this program is being conducted? Can you assure us you personally can assure us that no one is being eavesdropped upon in the United States other than someone who has a communication that is emanating from foreign soil by a suspected terrorist, Al Qaida or otherwise?

GONZALES: Sir, I can't give you absolutely assurance of the kind that you've asked for.

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LEAHY: Well, if the president has that authority, does he also have the authority to wiretap Americans' domestic calls and e-mails under this authority if he feels it involves Al Qaida activity?

I'm talking about within this country, under this authority you have talked about. Does he have the power under your authority to wiretap Americans within the United States if they're involved in Al Qaida activity?

GONZALES: Sir, I've been asked this question several times.

LEAHY: I know. And you've had somewhat of a vague answer, so I'm asking again.

GONZALES: And I've said that that presents a different legal question, a possibly tough constitutional question. And I am not comfortable, just off the cuff, talking about whether or not such activity would, in fact, be constitutional.

GONZALES: I will say that that is not what we are talking about here. That is not...

LEAHY: Are you doing that?

GONZALES: ... what the president has authorized.

LEAHY: Are you doing that?

GONZALES: I can't give you assurances. That is not what the president has authorized for this program.

There are those of who might think that one of the most important jobs of the Attorney General, in an environment where the established warrant-based system was not being used, would be to assure the American people that innocent Americans were not being listened to, and that the government didn't feel it could eavesdrop on domestic calls and email. But he can't give those assurances. It makes one feel all safe and warm inside, doesn't it?

But, in his defense, Mr. Gonzales did lighten the tone by delivering some of the best laughs on the Hill in days.

BIDEN: Thank you very much.

General, how has this revelation damaged the program?

I'm almost confused by it but, I mean, it seems to presuppose that these very sophisticated Al Qaida folks didn't think we were intercepting their phone calls.

I mean, I'm a little confused. How did it damage this?

GONZALES: Well, Senator, I would first refer to the experts in the Intel Committee who are making that statement, first of all. I'm just the lawyer.

And so, when the director of the CIA says this should really damage our intel capabilities, I would defer to that statement. I think, based on my experience, it is true -- you would assume that the enemy is presuming that we are engaged in some kind of surveillance.

But if they're not reminded about it all the time in the newspapers and in stories, they sometimes forget.

(LAUGHTER)

And you're amazed at some of the communications that exist. And so when you keep sticking it in their face that we're involved in some kind of surveillance, even if it's unclear in these stories, it can't help but make a difference, I think.

There you have it, folks. A key component of our national defense plan: waiting for the bad guys to forget we're listening.

Mr. Gonzales was prepared to reveal that he's been doing ground-breaking historical research!

GONZALES: I gave in my opening statement, Senator, examples where President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance of the enemy on a far broader scale -- far broader -- without any kind of probable cause standard, all communications in and out of the country.

President Washington, having used information from eavesdropping on Cornwallis' cell phone to win at Yorktown, was a big proponent of electronic surveillance, of course. Though even those Presidents who were actually able to order electronic surveillance did so before the FISA law was passed, which is the whole point, as AG Gonzales knows full well.

But the biggest laughie of all came when Senator Feinstein asked him about a statement made by his boss, the man who carried him from Texas and put him in the top law-enforcement job in the nation.

FEINSTEIN: The Intelligence Committees have not been briefed on the scope and nature of the program. They have not been able to explore what is a link or an affiliate to Al Qaida or what minimization procedures are in place. We know nothing about the program other than what we read in the newspapers.

And so it comes with huge shock, as Senator Leahy said, that the president of the United States in Buffalo, New York, in 2004, would say, and I quote, "Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."

Mr. Attorney General, in light of what you and the president have said in the past month, this statement appears to be false. Do you agree?

GONZALES: No, I don't, Senator. In fact, I take great issue with your suggestion that somehow that president of the United States was not being totally forthcoming with the American people.

I have his statement, and in the sentence immediately before what you're talking about, he said -- he was referring to roving wiretaps.

And so I think anyone...

FEINSTEIN: So you're saying that statement only relates to roving wiretaps, is that correct?

GONZALES: Senator, that discussion was about the Patriot Act. And right before he uttered those words that you're referring to, he said, "Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talk about wiretaps, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order."

GONZALES: So, as you know, the president is not a lawyer, but this was a discussion about the Patriot Act, this was a discussion about roving wiretaps. And I think some people are trying to take part of his statement out of context, and I think that's unfair.

Riiiight. Because he's not a lawyer, he was making a legalistic distinction, and when he said "any time you hear the United States government talk about wiretaps" he meant "any time you hear the United States government talk about wiretaps in this specific, limited context." Perfectly clear. All us non-lawyers mean "in this specific, limited context" when we say "any." So there couldn't be any attempt to mislead, since the President obviously knew we would all know that "any time" actually meant "when we're talking about roving wiretaps."

Since you've made that clear, Mr. Gonzales, how about some assurances that you are actually getting warrants for all roving wiretaps? Oh, that's right: you can't give assurances.